I have been making slow progress on the trike in part because of other duties and because I decided to revise the geometry considerably. That has proven to be a big success with greatly improved handling and extremely good maneuverability. The centre of gravity is so low that it cannot be flipped but will break the back end loose if pushed hard enough. I am close to having the electrics hooked up and will have some video in a day or two.
It can turn within it?s own wheelbase even at speeds that would flip most trikes.
The gas engine is really just an assist to the electric system which is where the real power lies. It has four 20 amp hour sealed valve regulated lead acid batteries capable of providing 300 amps at 48 volts. That is approximately a maximum output of 14 kilowatts for short periods.
Note: The gas tank is just taped in place for testing.
http://ixian.ca/pics7/etrikemk21.jpg
http://ixian.ca/pics7/etrikem22.jpg
http://ixian.ca/pics7/etrikem23.jpg
I had to add some fork extensions to produce the correct rake to trail ratio.
http://ixian.ca/pics7/etrikem24.jpg
Looks good, Evan.
It would require more ground clearance for my local roads, though. 
Really cool looking Evan. Put some off-road bash plates on those batteries to help them up and over any obstacle they might hit. Keep a lunch with you. You?re going to need it by the time a cop gets finished figuring out wether or not you are in compliance with whatever traffic laws he has personal knowledge of! Either that or take along a copy of the motor vehicle code law and ask him to show you which section he don?t like 
Have you figured out what the co-efficient of drag is going to be on your beard?
Super Coool! Why do you need the pedals? can you rest your feet on the pedals if the electric or gas is running the trike or are the pedals moving all the time? Great job. Fred
I am working with the local vehicle inspector who is on my side in this project. By using a bicycle frame with working pedals it allows him to place it in the moped category. Also important is that the bicycle can be reconverted to a regular bike by just undoing a few bolts and attaching the regular rear wheel. The non conforming aspect is the electric power system and the amount of power it can develop. That is needed because of the terrain here. By pitching it as an environmentally friendly hybrid vehicle for a disabled person we have a pretty good chance of getting it on the road. If I were female and dark skinned it would be a sure thing so I am working on my tan. The female part is not on the table. 
The pedals function just the same as they would on any bicycle. They have a standard freewheel.
Evan thats a cool looking bike where did you get the saddle looks comfeee. and YOD compliance with the law never seemed to disturb the tuttles in orange county choppers ,when designing bikes they had some very dangerous looking sharp parts on their bikes Alistair
Any considerations of adding solar?
Maybe a large panel overhead to keep the sun off.
Brian
Just to really mess with them, could you throw in a working PTO shaft? If in the unlikely event somebody really wanted to ticket you, an alternate fuel electric hybrid accessible moped farm vehicle really ought to be fun to write up.
Looking good so far any kind of milage guesstimate yet?
If I were female and dark skinned it would be a sure thing so I am working on my tan. The female part is not on the table.
The pedals function just the same as they would on any bicycle.
To get the ? female part on the table? You would have to make the pedals stationary and spread them farther apart along with raising them:D
Nice job Evan.
Is there any weight limits or restrictions that may come into play as far as licensing?
Steve
It will probably wnd up in what is called the "Limited Speed Motorcycle" catagory. All that will require of the inspector is to ignore the 1500 watt limit on maximum electric power. Since I will always average below that it shouldn?t be too difficult althought the peak power is around 2500 watts.
In that case the maximum weight is 200 lbs. The Trike is weighing in at 168 right now so add maybe 15 lbs for accessories and a cargo frame with light weight aluminum box. That gives a comfortable margin to work within. The batteries are 60 lbs alone.
I have no clue what the mileage may be.
I am working with the local vehicle inspector who is on my side in this project. By using a bicycle frame with working pedals it allows him to place it in the moped category. Also important is that the bicycle can be reconverted to a regular bike by just undoing a few bolts and attaching the regular rear wheel. The non conforming aspect is the electric power system and the amount of power it can develop. That is needed because of the terrain here. By pitching it as an environmentally friendly hybrid vehicle for a disabled person we have a pretty good chance of getting it on the road. If I were female and dark skinned it would be a sure thing so I am working on my tan. The female part is not on the table.
The pedals function just the same as they would on any bicycle. They have a standard freewheel.
Too bad?I have always liked the name "Evelyn". ;<)
I have a good comeback for that but this is a family rated show?.:D
Here in the uk anything with wheels and directly powered by an engine is classed as a motor vehicle and needs registering taxing etc.
However if you were to carry a genrator on a pushbike that didnt power it obviously that doesnt count.
I?ve wondered a couple of times whether a cycle with batteries recharged by an engine while stationary would be subject to the motor vehicle policy.
I think it probably would knowing our government, or soon will be if they catch on.
Nice build Evan.
I can see a lot of thought, ingenuity, and fabrication skills involved in this project.
I just knew when I saw your 2 stroke bicycle engine that it was destined to go into a hybrid project.;) Have you been able to test it yet as electric only, gas only, or am I jumping the gun a little as I can see there are some loose ends yet.
It will be interesting to see if you can get it accepted as a LSM, are you anticipating any issues due to not only the electric power exceeding maximum limits, but the combined power of gas and electric power may raise a few eyebrows as well. This is probably something that they haven?t encountered before, I?m sure there?s going to be a little head scratching going on.:D
Good luck, keep us posted.
It will be interesting to see if you can get it accepted as a LSM, are you anticipating any issues due to not only the electric power exceeding maximum limits, but the combined power of gas and electric power may raise a few eyebrows as well. This is probably something that they haven?t encountered before, I?m sure there?s going to be a little head scratching going on.
As far as the motor vehicle act is concerned this is not a vehicle because it isn?t described in the act. I have checked with ICBC at a fairly high level and they confirm that it doesn?t exist. Same with the RCMP. I have also checked directly with some members of the force that are traffic and hiways cops and the best opinion they can offer is that if I am pulled over I can tell the cop to "Pound Sand". I don?t think that would be very wise since many cops will only see that as a challenge.
The problem is the combination of power systems AND the fact that the electrics exceed 1500 watts. There is no category for that. While I can?t be charged for operating a vehicle without insurance that is precisely the problem. I do want insurance.
Because of the way that the MVA defines the insurance categories of motorcycles by engine displacement it brings up the problem of figuring out how many cubic centimetres make up a killowatt. The local vehicle inspector is very agreeable to pushing the rules into new territory. He recognizes the implications that it has for new categories of vehicles that solve problems that are unique to areas such as Williams lake and other outlying cities.
The vehicle is designed to fall within either the moped class if one ignores the electric power or in the LSM class if one ignores the engine and the maximum wattage limit. He also recognizes that the combination is required to make it possible to get from this valley to town because of the elevation gains required in both directions, a total of about 2500 feet. Going up hills with electric is an exercise in brute force capability and all the claims for range of various electric vehicles turn to dirt in the face of a 2 mile long 11% grade.
The gas engine is geared to provide hill climbing capability and is also intended to provide battery charging even at a standstill with the transaxle in neutral. That little 2 stroke burns completely smokeless with synthetic oil and the idea is to leave it shut off in town which makes the vehicle nice and quiet as well as pollution friendly.
Unfortunately today I have a medical appointment which is going to eat most of my day so I won?t have the electrics up and running today.
A similar thing exists here as far as I can tell, allthough I didnt go in to it as deep as that.
We are only allowed a measily 250 watts to maintain a bicycle class, ie not motorcycle or scooter.
That said these things are often overlooked by the plod, as most of them wont have an idea as to the power of a home built machine, so long as your not doing 50mph that is.
The law states that if a vehicle of any kind not used for agricultural purposes has an engine petrol or diesel is in fact a motor vehicle.
I dont think charging an electric bicycle at home with a diesel genset is illegal, neither will be carrying one on a bicycle.
I wondered if there is a loophole whereby you could legally recharge your cycle or trike up at home or work using the engine while you are stationary, you?d just need a generator that was portable, ie removeable not dedicated to the one job.
The 250 Watt limit for an electrically assisted bicycle in the UK is a bit of a joke.
It?s 250 watt continous, not peak and there?s no propper definition of the rating. The old BS standard for a 250 watt motor was one that would produce ?not less? than 250 watt continuous.
The gasoline engine isn?t just for charging. It provides motive power for hill climbing. Because of the gearing it isn?t intended for high speed operation but it will cruise at around 25 kmh on just the 2 stroke alone. The electric motor is a different story and I don?t know what the top speed will be with that but it too is geared well down so top speed will not exceed the legal regulated speed for either of the two classes. Acceleration using the electric will be very smart and may well be faster than most cars in the first 100 feet.
How well it accelerates will depend on the drive train. I can?t just put the full 48 volts to the electric drive from a standstill as it will probably blow the teeth off the belt. It will have to accelerate slowly to a few kmh before putting the boots to it.
The female part is not on the table.
If your female part is not on the table where did you leave it ??:D
Probably was sitting on the table, now standing up.
Can you put a hitch on it and claim its a farm rig you can drive them on the highway.
Richard
I need to work on my trike again so I can start using it. Evan, your situation is decidedly different than mine in that you have to go uphill for a stretch with few stops or slowdowns- I have to stop and start several times on level ground. I might be well served by an energy recovery system with a short time constant, while you might be better served by a continuous recharging system optimized for the level of energy recoverable as you coast down that hill for several k.
I?m just trying to brainstorm an idea that will work well in both circumstances. I?d like to incorporate a flywheel with a variable ratio transmission, but I don?t want the weight of the flywheel on board while I?m cruising along for some distance at a steady pace. Once it?s imparted its inertia back into vehicle motion, it becomes dead weight. Batteries- kind of the same thing, with the basic difference being the method of energy swapping in and out of these energy storage mediums.
Just off the top, I start to think- why not make the batteries part of the flywheel- you charge it up like a battery, but you can also spin it up like a flywheel. Ok, so now everyone is envisioning battery acid flying all over the place, lead plates shooting out the containment vessel, fire and brimstone engulfing all within range BUT- maybe there is a possibility here. Nobody says the battery has to be designed like a box- it could be made in the shape of a torus, and as a flywheel with enough inertial storage capability to swap out the amount of energy required to bring the vehicle up to speed from a standstill, the rpm could be kept to a reasonable maximum. Then, as you would already have a spinning component, an alternator could easily become part of the same component. The gas engine would do what it does best, as in putting out a fairly steady state power for continuous cruising.
Current sealed lead acid batteries won?t function under high G. The plates are covered in fiberglass mat that is saturated in gel. That gel will flow under high G to the bottom of the battery. As for the other new technologies such as liMH and LiPo, I don?t know. For me they are too expensive and too fragile as they need very close attention to how they are charged and even then they die in a couple of years whether they are used or not.
For now the best dollar value for the KWh is lead acid. The batteries I am using are only $60 each and are rated to withstand up to 300 total discharges. The maintain up to 80% charge over a year of no use and because of that are immune to freezing.
Flywheels are very problematic. The stored energy goes up as the square of the RPM. That means that any method of removing energy must deal with the maximum power output at the highest rpm, always a difficult combination. It also means that an alternator system must be able to work with respectable efficiency across a wide frequency range, as much as 10 or even 20 to 1. Trying to put batteries in a flywheel will bring you up against physical limits in a hurry. To store much energy you must have high rpm. To have high RPM means having all the material in the flywheel contributing to the strength of the flywheel and it must be a specific shape for maximum efficiency. That shape is like this:
http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics3/flywheel.jpg
It isn?t a very good shape for storing components that don?t contribute to the flywheel integrity. The amount of energy the batteries might store will not make up for the reduction in flywheel stored energy because of the inverse square reduction vs RPM required to accommodate the reduction in flywheel strength.
This isn?t a problem that better technology can easily solve.
Dang! Here I was, hoping for some free lunch! Not really- I get people almost every day telling me things like ?if you put a wind generator on your electric car, you can then run the car off the power? -and other stories like that.
Current sealed lead acid batteries won?t function under high G. The plates are covered in fiberglass mat that is saturated in gel. That gel will flow under high G to the bottom of the battery. As for the other new technologies such as liMH and LiPo, I don?t know. For me they are too expensive and too fragile as they need very close attention to how they are charged and even then they die in a couple of years whether they are used or not.
For now the best dollar value for the KWh is lead acid. The batteries I am using are only $60 each and are rated to withstand up to 300 total discharges. The maintain up to 80% charge over a year of no use and because of that are immune to freezing.
Flywheels are very problematic. The stored energy goes up as the square of the RPM. That means that any method of removing energy must deal with the maximum power output at the highest rpm, always a difficult combination. It also means that an alternator system must be able to work with respectable efficiency across a wide frequency range, as much as 10 or even 20 to 1. Trying to put batteries in a flywheel will bring you up against physical limits in a hurry. To store much energy you must have high rpm. To have high RPM means having all the material in the flywheel contributing to the strength of the flywheel and it must be a specific shape for maximum efficiency. That shape is like this:
http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics3/flywheel.jpg
It isn?t a very good shape for storing components that don?t contribute to the flywheel integrity. The amount of energy the batteries might store will not make up for the reduction in flywheel stored energy because of the inverse square reduction vs RPM required to accommodate the reduction in flywheel strength.
This isn?t a problem that better technology can easily solve.
I thought for max storage of energy the mass should be @ the periphery not the center, or is the pic just showing the smooth lines req? @ the shaft.
It is a matter of distributing the stress equally throughout the material of the flywheel to gain maximum energy storage for a given amount of mass. If the mass is concentrated at the outer edge then the inner portion is too weak to sustain the load that the same mass could sustain using the above shape at much higher RPM. Because the stored energy increases as the square of RPM the above shape is much better than one that has the mass around the outer rim.
It is similar to the principle that governs the size of a long steel cable suspended from one end with a load at the other. The end closest to the point of support (the bitter end) should be the thickest with the diameter reducing toward the load end. That will produce a cable that can support the most load for a given weight of cable.
Evan, Darryl.
This may sound crazy but why don?t you use the dead weight of the battery to store potential energy, so that it is raised when you go down hill or brake and lowers when you accelerate or go up hill using the dead weight to give you a push. How? thats the problem.
Alan
It isn?t worth the extra complication. One horsepower equals 33,000 lbs lifted one foot in one minute. The batteries weigh 60 lbs. If we lifted them one foot they could produce 0.0018 horspower for one minute or 1 horsepower for a tenth of a second.
Is that shape of the flywheel your invention?
You might have a look at real ones: UPS-Flywheel (http://www.pentadyne.com/uploads/18/Image/products/cutawaylabeledlarge.jpg), F1-Flywheel (http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html)
Seems you forgot to consider tangential stress resistance.
Nick
The flybrid system is interesting, and would certainly give a kick to a road car.
I dont think that would be much use for the road trike though.
Re-genning motion into battery charge would be a good idea though, using the electric motor as a brake, and charging the batteries with the energy, instead of the usual dumping it as heat to the atmosphere.
It isn?t my invention Nick but it is fairly recent. You really do need to keep up with the technology.
http://ixian.ca/pics7/flywheelpatent.jpg
This was invented by a researcher at Honeywell. They make a lot of flywheels.
This invention relates to an efficient energy storage flywheel possessing a benign failure mode. The invention relates particularly to flywheels with rotors fabricated from single crystals, microcrystalline solids, glasses or glass ceramics, which materials possess both high strength and low density and which fail at high stress in a brittle manner, thereby assuring rapid and complete fragmentation of the rotor in the event of rotor burst.
https://www51.honeywell.com/technologylibrary/Technology.do?page=print&techId=20
As long as it has the keyword "brittle failure" and "glassy" in the description, its perfect for you.
Nick
Apparently Honeywell likes it too.
The general principle applies to any material as I described above.
The general principle applies to any material as I described above.
Obviously, you didn?t read the patent well enough.
(another useless discussion)
Nick
Obviously you want to pick a fight. I have better things to do. Isotropic is a key word and most materials are isotropic unless combined with other materials (except cast iron, a poor choice for an energy storage flywheel). I wasn?t referring to composites.
Here in South Australia the rule is that 33cc is around 200W (the bike engine power limit) ? so if your bike engine is bigger than 33cc you are regarded as a motorcycle.
Michael
Here in South Australia the rule is that 33cc is around 200W (the bike engine power limit) ? so if your bike engine is bigger than 33cc you are regarded as a motorcycle.
Michael
You could probably get a lot of power out of 33cc if you revved the beejebus out of it. The speed record for 50cc is about 130mph.
I don?t understand your flywheel
Surely you want most mass at the edges ..doing it that way adds leverage ..and inability to slow down..so storing more power.
i would say if you put the same amount of metal into one with most of its weight at the edges ..then spun it up and compared with yours ?yours would be the easiest to stop by grabbing the outside of it .
dont think your 50 cc is capable of bursting anything .
all the best.markj
I?ve read articles where that shape of flywheel is shown and the advantages described just as Evan has suggested. The cross sectional shape makes sense, but it?s not relevant to my idea to add a flywheel to a combination gas and electric vehicle because a- I can?t make one like that b- it doesn?t give the advantage that I sought whereby the battery and the flywheel would be one and the same thing, c- my idea to include the flywheel doesn?t require it to rotate at some ungodly speed in order to store enough energy to propel the vehicle for miles. My intended use was to be able to bring the stopped vehicle up to road speed, and not much more. Asking the battery and electric motor to do that requires peaks of current which puts a strain on the system, and which could be avoided by using a mechanical inertial system as part of the overall propulsion system. Recovering the inertial energy of a vehicle to bring it to a stop from road speed could also be more efficiently done with the right variable ratio transmission coupled to a flywheel. That is not so easily done electrically, as you?re dealing with a re-generating apparatus which has to work efficiently with a wide variation in component rpms. The setup as I?m seeing it lends itself well enough to integrating an alternator within it, and by combining the functions into an integrated unit, you shave weight and cost by not having separate housings, mountings, frameworks, etc with all separate units. That is also a part of where I think this electric propulsion technology can be improved.
Well, that?s my pretty picture of the whole thing. In reality, it doesn?t work out that ideally, but I proposed the idea as something to think about and maybe spur some ideas that could work out in a practical sense.
As far as having the battery being part of the flywheel itself- that requires changing the way the battery is made, not fitting existing batteries into a ring shape and spinning it. It is a radical idea of course, and maybe it should be written off as a poor one, but it came from all you guys- I?m tapping into the collective conscience to gather all this stuff
You might have a look at real ones: UPS-Flywheel (http://www.pentadyne.com/uploads/18/Image/products/cutawaylabeledlarge.jpg), F1-Flywheel (http://www.flybridsystems.com/F1System.html)
Wow, that?s a very impressive design! The "shaft" of the flywheel is carbon fiber, with a heavy steel perimeter, rotating at 60,000 RPM in a vacuum generated my a molecular pump.
60 kW storage or recovery in 25 Kg! Was this actually used in last year?s F1 racing series?
"In 2007 the company developed an entirely mechanical high-speed flywheel based energy storage and recovery system to meet the 2009 Formula One regulations. This Flybrid? technology is now being applied to a range of applications outside motorsport and is well suited to use in road, rail and off highway vehicles.
High-speed flywheel based energy storage systems using Flybrid technology are powerful, small and light giving a better power to weight ratio than existing automotive hybrid technologies. This higher power makes it possible to store more energy during short braking periods dramatically increasing system effectiveness. The systems are also very efficient with up to 70% of braking energy being returned to the wheels to drive the vehicle back up to speed. The devices are readily recycled and relatively inexpensive to make as they can be made entirely from conventional materials."
Always happy to see some brainstorming and an open exchange of ideas.
Not so much on the antagonistic bickering. 
I love the design and the creativity of the hybrid power system and am eagerly awaiting to see the video of it in operation, even if it?s still just in testing phase.
Come on Evan? Moving pictures, please.
Moving pictures maybe tommorrow. I am about to wire up the batteries if the weather and the strange little blood sucking black flies we have never seen before will let me. I spent much of today working on general maintenance unrelated to hobby projects. I just finished building a 1000 litre rain cistern because it is looking like another drought summer. I have fencing to do before the garden is planted to keep the herd of deer out.
Wow, that?s a very impressive design! The "shaft" of the flywheel is carbon fiber, with a heavy steel perimeter, rotating at 60,000 RPM in a vacuum generated my a molecular pump.
60 kW storage or recovery in 25 Kg! Was this actually used in last year?s F1 racing series?
"In 2007 the company developed an entirely mechanical high-speed flywheel based energy storage and recovery system to meet the 2009 Formula One regulations. This Flybrid? technology is now being applied to a range of applications outside motorsport and is well suited to use in road, rail and off highway vehicles.
High-speed flywheel based energy storage systems using Flybrid technology are powerful, small and light giving a better power to weight ratio than existing automotive hybrid technologies. This higher power makes it possible to store more energy during short braking periods dramatically increasing system effectiveness. The systems are also very efficient with up to 70% of braking energy being returned to the wheels to drive the vehicle back up to speed. The devices are readily recycled and relatively inexpensive to make as they can be made entirely from conventional materials."
I wonder if the Rosen brothers are involved? Since it?s their basic design,right down to the molecular pumps.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,136542,00.html
Source: http://machinist.huoxsd.com/2011/05/15/hybrid-electrotrike-mkii-update/
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.